Herbal Products to help Create Breast Health

An interview with the founders of Cedar Bear Herbal Formulas
Jhone and Carl Robinson


This month, we speak with Carl and Jhone Robinson from Cedar Bear Naturals.  They run a herbal company in Utah with some of the most powerful and effective herbal formulas we have ever seen!  To learn more about their company check them out online at www.cedarbear.com.  They are currently restructuring their website but welcome your visit.

To order CBN products contact Susan Weismuller at Stellar Health 831.728.8945 or Sue Malinowski at 831.372.5225. They are providing Breast Health Project friends a 10% discount on product orders.

BHP:  Welcome, tell us about how you both got started in herbology.

Jhone: I have a fun little story in that I was a doctor’s daughter, my father was an Internist in Seattle. He started the Polyclinic in Seattle.  We were into real traditional orthodox medicine, and when I married an herbalist, life changed. I had had multiple experiences with something that no medical doctor had been able to figure out.  Once we realized that it was an MS autoimmune type condition, we went the herbal direction, so it took me getting married to an herbalist to go that direction.  And, it has been my life ever since.

Carl:  Jhone had some family and personal experiences took her into the Eastern energy healing realms, where she became a certified yoga instructor and martial healing arts instructor. The two of us have dealt with Tibetan Natural Medicine (TNM) for some years now, having been personally introduced into the culture and the community that they have in Salt Lake City, Utah, which was one of four Tibetan relocation projects throughout the US. We have also both been trained in clinical hypnotherapy and are certified clinical hypnotherapy instructors.

 My background has been in clinical & formulary herbalism and therapeutic nutritional counseling.  I pursued my herbal pharmacology and formulary degree, as a Master Herbalist’s, out of Canada.  I’m a license qualifed Therapy Technician,  and schooled and certified in numerous  allied and adjunct integrative healing modalities.  I must also give recognition to the numerous professionals that I have collaborated and worked with over the years and have taught me much.

At Cedar Bear, we take a very integrative approach that has enabled us to work with psychiatrists, psychologists, medical doctors, naturopaths (licensed), chiropractors, etc.  They are pretty grateful that there are people out there who have taken the time to get the training and actual clinical background. We intimately understand the protocols and problems that doctors are confronted with every single day.  It’s not as easy and cut-and-dried as people would like to think it is. 

BHP:  That’s true!  Jhone how are your health problems?

Jhone: Our personal experience of the rebuilding of my health has been very, very successful with diet, mind/body healing, moderate exercise, yoga work and the herbs.  The herbal work that we have done with Cedar Bear has grown a lot out of working with autoimmune conditions to help strengthen health and well being.  It’s been quite a wonderful journey.

Carl: Jhone and I had also gotten certified and worked in mediation & conflict resolution, which tied into our hypnotherapy, and Tibetan Natural Medicine has rounded it out,  with the clinical herbalism always underlying all of it. 

My Master of Herbology studies also had an extensive segment on aromatherapy.  And we are talking clear back in the mid early mid-1980’s, when such a thing wasn’t even really understood here in the United States, and was only beginning to take a strong foothold in Europe under the term Clinical Aromatherapy.  I had studied aromatherapy from the European perspective of nutrition and its internal therapeutic use, where we give small, small doses to get safe therapeutic benefits.

BHP:  Well, when I hear you talk, your mind-body-spirit approach, which is what we do at the Breast Health Project – it’s not just herbalism, but its also about the emotional aspects around breast health and the physical aspects; the massage, the body work and the acupressure points. Your philosophy seems very coherent with what we are trying to do.

Carl:  Well, that’s nice because I get people who sometimes look at my resume and they say, ”Wow you are supposed to be a clinical herbalist and nutritional therapist.  How come you got all the rest of the stuff?” Tibetan Natural Medicine probably puts it in the best words. They say, “How can you separate the mental/emotional from the physical?”  It's not possible; in fact, they consider it insane.  In fact, they call Western medicine an insane endeavor, because it attempts to have this person do this part of it, that person do another part of it, and typically those two people or whoever is involved don’t even collaborate, and concur and communicate with each other to come up with this image of we are dealing with a whole person here.

BHP:  Yeah.  The separation of emotional health and physical health in that paradigm is just not possible.

Carl:  That's why they have a very spiritual approach, because for them the spirit actually is what locks the physical and the emotional together.  Tibetan Natural Medicine has such a highly spiritual aspect to it.  In fact, the most renowned doctors of Tibetan medicine are Buddhist monks.

BHP:  You use a very different approach than most people use.  But it seems like people are really hungry for it.

Jhone:  Carl looks to herbal formulation as well as the development of the process used to make our products, the Tinc Trac process, as  operating on this mind-body, physical and energetic basis ; a holistic integrative ‘all work together’ approach.

Carl:  In fact I might add here that, and it's a little hard saying it for myself since one should not toot their own horn, but I am possibly the only person in the whole herbal product's industry at large that takes such a highly differentiated approach to formulating a product.  Leastwise, I’ve found no one else who does so to the degree I do.  This may account for why every singly one of our formulas work.

I don’t look at just the pharmacology or anecdotal considerations.  I don’t look at just the clinical either; I have to consider the mineral signature, the energetic profile of each separate herb, and then bringing them all together to see what the overall collective energy profile is. Within the energetic profile there are lot of subtleties and sub profile. 

And, when all of that's done we have only dealt with a half a dozen considerations just on the core side alone. I then have to take the product and taste it, because if it doesn’t taste right it won’t sell.  We live in a society, especially here in America, where they won’t use it if it tastes bad.  So, I have to take the taste consideration, work the taste consideration without bumping out any of the other considerations.  So, these formulas often times are not very easy to develop and put together.

BHP:  Yeah, just from reading the ingredients on your products, I can see how complex they are.  Let's talk a little bit more about what makes your product unique.  The alcohol to glycerin approach, the TincTract® process, educate us a little bit.  I think a lot of people aren’t familiar with herbs and herbal products enough to understand why alcohol would be the standard being used and why the way you’ve formulated your product and take a totally alcohol-free might be a better idea.  Could you talk about that?

Carl:  Well, first of all, we use glycerin versus alcohol.  In my early studies, I had by then obtained a pretty solid background in human physiology and biochemistry.  Every European aromatherapist knows that if you want to maintain the therapeutic index or the therapeutic effect of an aromatic, I mean an essential oil, you do not cut it with alcohol.  It will maintain its sense of smell, but it loses its therapeutic quality and potential.  So, in clinical aromatherapy cutting essential oils with alcohol is a big no, no.

 In fact, I have talked to three different perfumists – these people have secrets they hold close to their chest.  When I’d talk with them I’d make the comment to them of, “You know, I know why you cut your products with alcohol, even your perfumes.  It is because you want to knock out the emotional therapeutically based triggers, while still having that nice aroma quality to linger” and I had two of them look straight at me and say, “You just basically cracked one of the great secrets of the perfume trade.”  The third said, “That is absolutely correct, we do not need people having our women out there using our product, and then suddenly she is popping emotional issues all over the place and doesn’t know, why.”  Fact is, because of its denaturing effect alcohol cuts many of the therapeutic benefits of aromatic compounds. 

The other thing that I had learned earlier on is that alcohol renders inert or denatures many enzymes, and many water soluble nutritional components. Though alcohol may remove many constituents and compounds my next question is, ‘Okay, but do these alcohol extracted components  still have their original intrinsic biologically active integrity still intact?’   In other words, is that biological compatibility and synergy, that originally was there, still present?  Scientifically, as well as evidence based consideration wise, it is not so.  So, that’s a big strike against using alcohol as a solvent extractive agent for botanicals.

As I furthered my studies, I steadily leaned towards glycerin, and I kept asking myself, “Glycerin is used so widely in the food products and beverage industry, so why is this so in preference to alcohol?”  People ask, “What is glycerin?”  Glycerin is a compound that is a part of all plant and animal tissues.  It occurs everywhere in nature as far as living systems are concerned.  It’s always bound with fatty acids (also called ‘lipids’).  You have one glycerin molecule and two fatty-acid molecules and that’s what makes up a fat molecule.  And, that’s why, it absorbs in our body so well, and it is so natural and intrinsic to our body systems, while alcohol is not!

BHP:   Interesting.  So, how did you come up with the TincTract® process?

Carl:  What happened here was I looked at what was out there, and had to first ascertain if glycerin is safe, then the next thing I had to look at was if it can extract at least as good as alcohol or even better.  Well, when I went into the chemistry and food/medicine text and thoroughly studied them , I went Holy cow!  No wonder the eclectic herbalists positions of the mid-late 19th century and the general herbalists of today, and even the contemporary herbal product’s manufacturers, are missing a huge factor here.  And that is, the eclectics treated glycerin like they did alcohol.  Only there are problems with this view – glycerin has a lower freezing point, and a much higher boiling point than alcohol.  So, you can utilize glycerin much more differently than alcohol.  In other words, you can ‘work’ the glycerin, that was the big aha that came to me was ‘My Gosh!’ I don’t have to use alcohol but can use glycerin and expect even better results than alcohol gives.  The food products and beverage industries already understood this and continue to do so today.

Now, the word TincTract®  is an acronym, derived from the word tincture and extraction.  The TincTract® process is a labor intensive multi-step process.  What we do is that in the process we deal with the greater Hippocratic/Galenic based four-fold model of air, water, fire and earth.

BHP:  Oh wow!  Okay.  I am with you.

Carl:  And, what we start with is that, within nature, the metaphor of air, fire, water, and earth prevails everywhere and has metaphorical implications in all of life..  I probably don’t even have to go through that with you due to your own holistic orientation to life.   Even so, we found with the TincTract® process, you got to dry the herb, which incorporates the element of Earth.  For some reason or other drying a herb, preps the herb.  It stabilizes it to go through a liquid process.

Next we Move to Water.  Water is cooling; water has to do with the water-soluble elements. We have a part of the process; where low temparature, meaning no high heat is applied.  We use the energetic principles of water to go into the herb, to take that dried herb, and soak it and get it all hydrated, so that it can give up the heat sensitive water soluble elements.  The next thing that we move to is the Fire.  In this first step of the process, it’s a super critical step, very aggressive and we are able to draw out a lot of the aromatic components that don’t come out, without the application of heat.  And, we are also able to draw other components that won’t come out even with heat due to some trade secreted technologies we apply. For instance, take polysaccharides; certain ones won’t come out without the application of heat.  And, these polysaccharides are part of nutrition as well as we now know that they enhance immune activity.   

From there we have the Air step of the process, which we call the clarifying step.  This step possesses many of the metaphoric and energetic qualities of Air, and in that step we are able to draw many of the trace elements and the trace nutrients, that don’t come out with the prior steps.  All  of this is done separately, and at the end we combine it back together.  So the process really does, not only exemplify an outright modern chemical philosophy, it uses metaphoric principles of applied alchemy.

BHP:  Interesting, each herb takes days to ….

Carl:  Oh yeah…, we probably take more time to process herbs, specially roots and certain seeds than probably anyone else out there.  And, when we try to do it shorter it doesn’t work, so every herb… and this is proprietary to us,  has a set time, which it goes through each process not just the total process, but each step has it’s own timelines that we work with.  You can imagine what it was like getting the processes up and going, once they are going then the timeline works fine, but every time we have to increase and ramp up for increased business, it takes us a couple of months to get the curve in place.  That’s how intensive and well thought out our process is.

BHP:  That is what makes your product so unique though.

Carl:  Yeah, it’s one of many things that does.

BHP:  That’s what makes it so effective I think.

Carl:  Daya, one other things that we have had now said to us by our brokers, and we have one back east we are working with, he says I have used your product, family members have and key stores personnel have been using the product, he said that they are all coming back and I have to agree.  “This is not a typical herbal product,”  he says,  “You have a category defining  product unlike any other I’ve seen in over 20 years in the business.”

BHP:  Yeah, it’s true.

Carl:  And, is because our particular product sits between that of a pure medicinal and a pure food.  We really are probably more indicative of ‘Nutritional Herbalism’ then any other product line out there.

BHP: In terms of breast health; we get women who are post cancer treatments, who are struggling with lymph edema.  So, I am looking for products that specifically affect the lymphatic system, and also women who have ongoing hormonal imbalance. We can keep the lymph moving, we can keep the energy moving, we can do the emotional work.  But, there is still that nutritional aspect. Trying to balance hormones in today’s world is not an easy task.  Do you have specific product recommendation that you could talk about a little bit?

Carl:     Yes we do.  Some of the herbs that we deal with, for instance our Female PlusFemale Plus was formulated not necessarily to keep estrogen levels up, wasn’t necessarily done to also boost the progesterone side of the equation either, but intended to balance the body.  It takes a highly nutritious approach.  We believe that the human body if given the right tools, and provided you can manage the stress levels appropriately, will take care itself.  But, it has to have the right tools to do so.

BHP:   Right, right.

Carl:  So, we have our Female Plus, which can also be used by young girls coming through the back side of puberty. We recommend that just the week before or few days before going into their periods, they stop taking the product.  Just the only thing is during the period time that they do not take the  Female Plus product, and then start taking it again after a period is over.

BHP:  Just because that particular product can …

Carl:  It contains herbs that could potentially increase the bleeding in certain circumstances, because it has a blood conditioning effect to it.  Formerly what was called cleansers is really more accurately called a ‘conditioner’ (we clinical herbalists don’t like calling it a catch-all term that misses the point).   A number of herbs used specifically for females also possess secondary effects of mildly conditioning the blood.

BHP:  Okay.

Carl:  Also for the glandular side we have Glandular Aide, an excellent product, and our Adreno-Build.  We go into college campuses and the minute anybody knows that we have an adrenal building program; they just eat it right up. And, we have had a lot of students get back with us and say. “Man it relaxes me.” or “I’m not as uptight.   I seem to have a little extra energy for being able to do my schooling and get through tests.”  Because the young people now, have blown out adrenals because of …

BHP:  Right.  For people who feel like they are fatigued, and that is part of the problem that Adreno-Build would be ….

Carl:  Exactly.  Daya, what the problem is, particularly here in the western hemisphere and I include Europe in that formula, we are so performance driven to the point that its gone fanatic.  You know?  It’s rush, rush, rush; everything we do.  We have very, very little still or quiet time.  One of the big jokes out there is when Americans go on vacation, they have to come back and take a vacation to recoup from the vacation.

BHP:  Right.

Carl:  And, that says everything right there.  It’s our glandular system, especially the HPA Axis – hypothalamus, pituitary, adrenals, that takes the hit.  The HPA Axis is the mechanism that controls our immune system.  And, when the HPA Axis gets exhausted, we have all kinds of incursions.  Now, if the HPA Axis happens to get over activated then you have autoimmune conditions.  And, that’s mostly what the Glandular Aide is geared towards is the HPA Axis, where the Adreno-Build is specifically for the adrenal and as a secondary effect of working with the thyroid; which brings me to another point concerning herbs and cancer.

First of all, I need to make really clear that we do not approach herbalism specifically to take care of cancer, arthritis, diabetes or anything like that.  For the simple reason, we believe that the symptom is not the problem.  It’s the manifestation, but it’s not the problem.  One of the things that was brought to my attention, was a cadaver research program done by the government (I believe it was over a ten year period).  What they were doing was studying the tissue levels of certain nutrients, minerals particularly. And, they found that in the people who died of non-cancerous causes, that they always had appreciable to high levels of iodine in their tissues throughout their bodies.  Surprising thing was those who had died of cancer had little to no tissue iodine levels.  That's shocking, isn’t it?

BHP:  Yeah.  I do have access to that research and we talk about iodine on the website, so.  I am aware of that information.  It's very interesting.  In terms of the antioxidants and iodine levels, are you talking about this with the Adreno-Build?  Or you are talking about a more comprehensive program?

Carl:  Well, more comprehensive.  We have our antioxidant products.  You have got the Antioxidant Plus, the Noni Plus and the goji berry plus.  These are all antioxidant rich formulas we make.

BHP:  Tell me about the lymph product and how that might be helpful for people especially people who, after cancer treatment have a compromised immune system and compromised lymphatic system.

Carl:  Yeah, and that's a hard one, because most lymphatic aggressive herbs also stimulate the immune system.  So, you have to handle that one real careful.  Today, the most consistently lymphatic aggressive herb, yet proven in clinical herbalism circles, is Red Root.

 There are lot of other herbs out there that maybe an herbalist’s favorites or that have been used, but red root seems to be the overwhelming consensus as the most consistently lymphatic aggressive.  It also happens to have an immune stimulating effect. 

So, what we dealt with when I formulated the lymphatic cleanse was doing it in such a way that it would be aggressive in getting the fluids cleared out, because the problem with lymphatic as you know is too much excess fluid gathering around the lymphatic.  Once we clear the excess fluid out then the cells begin to work and nutrition starts going in there, the waste goes out and you get normalcy coming back. 

That's the thing to remember is that there is two types of approach in lymphatic care.  One is to stimulate the immune system, and that’s not going to work very well when lymphatics are all congested.  So you got to go to the core, which is get the excess fluid cleared out. 

That’s what our Lymphatic Cleanse is geared towards primarily, is to clear the excess fluids out from around the tissues.  Then from there, you have the immune stimulating aspect.  Now, a lot of times in dealing with lymphatics, you also have to kick in the kidneys, because once you get the lymphatics pushing the fluids out, you have also got to get the kidneys pulling it out of the body, so that the waste leaves the body.

 But, from a nutritional point of view, I tell people, particularly those that have a cancer situation, drink a lot a fresh of water with fresh lemon squeezed in it, because the lemon possesses a slight diuretic action.

BHP: And, what people who have risk of lymph edema, would these lymph products be helpful products for them?

Carl:  Absolutely.

BHP:  Okay.

Carl:  Absolutely, yes.  That’s what it’s geared towards.  And Daya, the ironic thing is that even though they have lots of fluid in their system, they need to drink a lot of water to get it moving through the body.

BHP:  Yeah, plenty.

Carl:  One other reason is we have to kick the kidneys into action.

BHP:  Really!

Carl:  Because, the kidneys are integral part of helping the lymphatics drain. Also, so often times, people who are having lymphatic edema problems, have blocked up colon.  Now, we don’t want to create a situation, where person is in a perpetual state of laxation, where the stools are constantly running.  What we want is to avert constipation, because that will always challenge the lymphatic system.

BHP:  Oh, I love hearing you say that.

Carl: I have got a couple of stories, where I literally saw by clearing the colon out from a colonic I was administering, I saw gross lymphatic edema vanish, right before my eyes within twenty minutes after the colonics were finished.  They lost ten percent to fifteen percent of their body weight through copious urinating every few minutes.  Just constant urination over a twenty minute period of time.  Because by taking the pressure off the colon it allowed the lymphatics to systemically do their job, and that stimulated the kidneys, and it was amazing sight, let me tell you .

BHP:   We call that "if mamma is not happy, nobody is happy!"

Carl:  Yeah.  So, that’s my view of lymphatics having worked closely with a program in lymphology and having been an owner/operator of therapy center that that included colon hydrotherapy.  It’s not just lymphatics you’ve got to look at the other body systems working together.  And, I think that was often times missed by nutritionist, many herbalists and integrative health care specialists.  They focused on one aspect so much; they forget that the body isn’t one body system only. 

A lot of times people look at me and wonder why I’m giving this herb or that formula that appears to not be for the problem they want solved.  It may even seem very odd to them, so I tell them it’s because that body system for which this formula is made is supporting this body system here to get the job that we want done.  After my explaining to them, they realize the approach makes perfect sense.

BHP: Now you have had some research done on your herbs, some independent research, is it cited somewhere on your website that I can link to that or… ?

Carl:  Our website is completely being redone to reflect our updated image that is also reflected in our now product labels.  Yes!  Those studies and independent 3rd party lab analysis’ will be cited when the site is finished and up.

BHP:  And yes, you can send me links to those.

Carl:  From a company point of view, especially a commercial point of view, after our using an average seven times less herbs than super-saturate based products do, because out extraction process is so efficient, that means that we are more Earth & Botanical Friendly.  This is something a lot of my competing companies out there are really not aware of or willing to address which is that all this super-saturate, isolate/fractionate based purely pharmaceutical approach to the making of their products is not earth or botanically friendly.

BHP:  Yeah, because it wastes so much of the product.

Carl:  Oh it does, it wastes huge amounts of raw materials and a lot of the stuff doesn’t even get extracted out in favor of one or two components that much of are left in the un-spent raw materials as well.

Jhone:  And, we need to keep our supplies healthy out in the world.

BHP:  Wonderful!  Yeah, I love your guys approach, I love your product, and I really appreciate your time and talking to you.  Is there anything else you want to tell people that might be listening to this interview you think is important that we didn’t touch on?

Jhone:  I would like Carl to go into some detail about our ISN factor formula, which is absolutely amazing, in not only its ability to help protect health when its highly challenged, but that it helps support the natural interferon activity of the body.

Carl:  Okay.  The interferon. One of the thing’s that really challenge natural interferon production in the body is Hep-C.  There are other things that also challenge interferon production, especially drugs that are used for and referred to as Interferon Drug Therapy. 

The irony is that those very drugs actually destroy the liver’s ability to produce its own interferon intrinsically.  As you know, interferon is not in and of itself, on an immune component like white blood cells, etc. are. It’s a messenger cell that tells the immune system “hey, we have incursion”, you know as they say in Star Trek “shields up” you know, it’s the shields up type of thing.  It’s not the shields that are the interferon, it’s the message from the flight deck to put the shields up that are akin to an interferon event. 

That’s what interferon does, they are communicators, they are security cameras and communications system of the immune system.  They are absolutely essential, because without interferon activity your immune system just goes to hell in a basket, goes all over the place, it’s up, it’s down, it's in, it's out; it can’t get any sense of cohesiveness because it is out of communication with other parts of the immune system.

Jhone:  And, it's one of the things involved with cell activity, it’s that normal.

Carl:  Exactly!  As a matter of fact during the 1970's and early 80's the research in cancer on the body’s natural occurring interferon found that when interferon activity was high, there is very little of any cancer activity going on in the body.  I am inclined to believe that between the interferon, there is an iodine interferon connection as well, I don’t know what it is, it’s only by implication at this point in time, but I think that there is a connection there because it seems that people who have high iodine have very good interferon, and vice versa.

BHP:  How interesting!

Carl:  Well, we have a product, and its complex, I mean it's got like twenty four herbs in it, and it's formulated to work with the liver’s interferon producing activity as well as to nutrify the varying points of the body systems that are involved with interferon communication.  Cant say much more than that without getting overly detailed.

Jhone:  Right and that product is called IFN Factor.

Carl:  IFN is the scientific definition for interferon.

BHP:  Okay, if there are people listening to this interview or reading this interview, and they have specific questions, could people consult with you on an individual basis

Carl: Yes, they can.  What they need to do is call the office, and Jhone can arrange for that, and she will be able to determine to what the costs to do so are and the time  involved.  To some people it’s more simple, other people its quite complicated almost to the point where I have to say “listen, without seeing you and getting more of a one-on-one visual as well, it can get quite difficult doing the consult.”  So, it can go from the simple to the complex, and I’m pretty straight forward.  If I can’t do a consult over the phone because it’s too complex, I am going to let them know.  Number to call: 435=722-2147 – ask for Jhoane to arrange and schedule the consult.

BHP:  Okay, great!

Jhone:  Oh Carl’s quite amazing in his ability to go straight to the core of an issue or problem, and help clear out a lot and bring the clarity of what may really be going on to bring about where a person is at and may need to go from there.

Carl:  Its called bottom line therapy.

BHP :  Okay well, that’s helpful, because I think some people will have more specific questions.

Carl:  Good.

BHP:  So, I appreciate that, and I really appreciated your time, and I love your product, I think its brilliant and it’s been amazingly effective for me.  So, hopefully we will turn many people onto it.

Carl:  Well that’s great, and remember that the basis is herbalism, isn’t only about the therapy, but they are the original nutritional supplements.

BHP:  Yeah they are sure.

Carl:  And, the TincTract® brand process approaches it from the point of view of concentrating those nutrients and micronutrients, because I believe that a large part of the TincTract® medicinal and regenerative effect is because of the nutritional density that is very unique to our products.

Jhone:  For building and rebalancing health.

Carl:  Yeah exactly.

Jhone:  And protecting health.

Carl:  And, as far as I know, we are the only liquid herbal products company that addresses, and is really emphasizing that aspect of herbalism from a commercial level.

BHP:  Yeah.  It’s a very unique product.  And, it’s nice that you have so much research and such a profound understanding of the herbs… actually it’s wonderful!  So, thank you for sharing that with us today.

To learn more about their company check them out online at www.cedarbear.com.  They are currently restructuring their website but welcome your visit.

To order CBN products contact Susan Weismuller at Stellar Health 831.728.8945 or Sue Malinowski at 831.372.5225. They are providing Breast Health Project friends a 10% discount on product orders.




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